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Our voices are a defining quality of who we are—but often go under-appreciated, argues Lake Bell. This week, Lale chats with the writer-actor-director-producer about her new audiobook with Pushkin Industries, Inside Voice: My Obsession with How We Sound, to find out just how much of our personal histories and travels are captured by our voices, and unpacks the power we possess—and the challenges we may face—when we speak.
For more from Women Who Travel, visit womenwhotravel.com or subscribe to our newsletter.
Lale Arikoglu: Hello. I'm Lale Arikoglu, and welcome to Women Who Travel, a podcast for anyone who is curious about the world and excited to explore places both near and far from home.
Today, I'm so excited to talk to actor and director, Lake Bell. I've loved her work since her movie, In A World, back in 2013. And on November 1, she came up with an audiobook from Pushkin Industries called, Inside Voice: My Obsession with How We Sound. It's a deep dive into, as Lake puts it, "Our most ignored and least appreciated trait, our voice."
In this show we speak to travelers who have a huge range of accents and dialects. It's fascinating to listen to. Where we live and who we talk to on a daily basis affects how we speak, the pace, the volume, the rhythm. I'm curious to know more.
Lake Bell: And your name is Lale?
LA: Lale.
LB: Lale.
LA: Yes.
LB: Because they're spelled very similar, our names.
LA: We are. And actually my name always auto corrects to Lake, so I get many- man a Lake. [laughs]
LB Oh, Lale. [laughing] Where are you from originally?
LA: Um, I'm from, I'm from London.
LB: You're from London, but your name is quite extraordinary.
LA: Yes.
LB: Wh- what-
LA: My dad is Turkish, so I have a Turkish name. But you know what is, I don't even say my last name correctly, because I can't speak Turkish.
LB: Well how would your father or his relatives say it?
LA: To my shame, like I literally can not even... I don't think I can make the shape of my mouth to pronounce it in the correct way.
LB: Uh, look who's here. Okay. Lale.
LA: She's got, she's got a good bark on her.
LB: I like saying your name [laughs].
LA: Okay, okay, please love it, because um, I had a real complex over it at school 'cause everyone said it wrong, so-
LB: Well guess what? You're talking to someone named, Lake, so think about what my school life was like. Lake Bell, two nouns that you can just make fun of that name from every angle, you know. It's like, Lake Titicaca, you know, which is a-
LA: [laughs]
LB: ... real lake in- in America. You know, there's Lake Erie. You know there's, "Lake's got no waves," you know, that was pre-puberty, but whatever. The point is, now we have the last laugh, 'cause we-
LA: Exactly.
LB: ... cool names.
LA: Yeah. It was unfortunate that I was at school at the same time as the Teletubbies, so Laa Laa the Teletubby was- was rough.
LB: I'm so sorry.
LA: [laughs]
LB: I'm so sorry for [laughs] your endurance.
LA: But as you said, here we are-
LB: Yeah.
LA: ... we have the last laugh. I am so excited to talk to you about your audio book. I've been listening to it, it's a joy, it's so interesting.
LB: It starts, as you know 'cause you've started in the book, my mother made a really great observation, which is that it is a subject that sort of fans people's vanity a bit and their ego, and then at the same time, gives them an opportunity to be humbled [laughs]. So it's this idea of, "Oh, you wanna know about my voice. Oh dear goodness, I hate my voice. I don't understand my voice and yet, we can talk about it some more," you know?
LA: Yeah.
LB: It- it is funny. And- and I'm down for that. I think... I like asking questions and learning more about people. It only informs my interest as a narrative storyteller, you know?
LA: Everyone's voice is different and it's the one thing that is truly... one of the only things that's truly only yours and so it is an excuse to talk about yourself, which is wonderful. But on the flip side, listening back to your own voice is like an oddly vulnerable position to be in, to have to hear your own voice.
LB: I know, it's both vulnerable and also flattering [laughs]. And it's interesting, because obviously we painstakingly observe ourselves in the mirror, right? We look in them, "Oh, my hair doesn't, isn't doing the thing today. This blush is not the right hue. Oh, this turtleneck isn't quite right," whatever. But our voices, we never pay attention to. We exercise our bodies because we want our calves to look a certain way, but we don't exercise our voice. We just use it all day long and strain it all day long, and don't pay attention to it at all. We're not connected to that as the core element in our communication with other humans when it is. Lale, you have a-
LA: [laughs]
LB: ... great voice [laughs]. You have a terrific voice. And, you know, I hope that in listening to the book too, if there was one goal, right, if we, uh, if I'm allowed to have a hope and dream in terms of what Inside Voice can offer is, own your true sound. As long as you are speaking from an authentic sound and you are connected, I think, you know, maybe honor it a little bit more, maybe give it a little warmup, maybe have that tea or what have you. I mean, you're British, so you're probably having tea all day long. The color and- and texture from all of your experiences allow them to shine and own it, and then don't self-loath it.
LA: Yeah. You grew up in New York, a place of many accents and many dialects. Is that how your obsession with voices began?
LB: 100%. New York City is like London, because I lived in London for four years. These are cities that are these, you know, they call it the melting pot for a reason. You know, it's like all of the flavors and seasonings, and proteins, and vegetables of voices are alive and well, and thriving, and all intermingling. It is the beauty of New York City and I should say London as well, but it is the beauty of- of New York, because as a kid, whether you like it or not, you are awarded the privilege to hear all of these sounds and- and voices from every continent in the world. And that I remember, you know, I tell a story about, uh, just being on the crosstown bus. I did, I lived on the East Side and I had to get to the West Side, Upper East Side to the West Side for my reading tutor. And that crosstown bus... By the way, New York is a sliver of an island. It's not that long of a drive, but you are going to ingest and s- sponge up, your ears are gonna be just in a party of different sounds.
Not just sounds, but languages, accents, dialects, vocal and tonal qualities. I mean, it's remarkable. And I found it to be one of my favorite parts of my day, you know? It's just, um, you know, I- I miss that a bit in LA 'cause you do, you are in your car. I used to collect sounds from different continents on that bus ride just like stamps. Like some kids were like, "Yeah, I'm into stamps," or "I'm into like, wacky rocks that look like hearts," you know. And I'm like, "I'm into accents. This is where I am, I need to collect them and-"
LA: How did, how did you collect them? Was it just a sort of a mental thing, you're keeping like a-
LB: As a little girl, it was more a mental thing. So it would be like, "Oh that- that sound, I like that sound." I would study mouths, you know, the mouths changed. So the mouth, uh, the kind of like Haitian French mouth or something. Or any sort of French speaker would be more pursed and the lips would be more frontal. And then, you know, you have Puerto Rican sounds, little bit wider. And then like the shapes that, you know, say hard Bronx, you know, or Long Island or New Jersey, you have that kind... Uh, the borough mouths look different, you know? It was like-
LA: Mm-hmm.
LB: And there was also just music to it, you know, the cadence, the rhythm. It's not just accents and dialects, and tonality, but it's also just like the rat-tat-tat, you know, like what's the rhythm of those things? That- that I found really interesting.
LA: I've definitely been guilty of using my British accent as currency in America. Um, but I'm interested-
LB: Yeah, you should. [laughs]
LA: You know, look, Britain isn't really doing that well on the public stage at the moment, so I might run out of luck, but until then-
LB: Who is doing well on the public stage at the moment [laughing]? No one's doing well. It's alright.
LA: But until then, I'm going to cling to it. But you moved to the U.K. and arrived with your American accent. You know, obviously you're going to drama school, but also outside of that, did you find yourself starting to adapt how you spoke?
LB: So this is what's so funny. When I went to drama school I was the only American at my college and everyone was like, "Oh my God, you're gonna lose your accent," you know, "you're gonna like get a British accent when you go." And I was like, "Listen, I'm gonna just stay aware." Off the boat they just were like, "Oh my God, you've got to get rid of that. You've got such a strong [laughs] American ac," yeah. I was like, "I don't have an accent, you have an accent." They're like, "Uh, sorry, uh, who was here first-"
LA: [laughs]
LB: ... you know? So then I ended up having to get rid of my American accent for my work at school. Not on a daily, you know, a commute, okay, but for school and the work that we did there, I- I had to adopt and learn-
Speaker 3: On the other hand, he- he was born into the royal family, he has served it. He served the queen and country.
LB: ... phonetically, receipt pronunciation.
LA: Um, did... I'm impressed with anyone that has the ability to put an accent on, 'cause I can not do any and I just-
LB: You can.
LA: ... this is all I have.
LB: The voice is far more pliable than you realize, like there's a set of muscles. You could totally learn-
LA: Mm-hmm.
LB: ... accents and dialects, and you could adjust in the same way that, you know, like, well if you worked your hamstrings, eventually they will loosen up.
Part of the joy of voice is that it is playful. I see it as totally something to relish and enjoy. And when I travel I think, "Ooh, I can not wait to hear the sounds and the shapes of the voices that I will be exposed to." You know, just to speak to what you do. It's totally the- the joy of travel is the visual components that our eyes and our design sensibilities, our style sensibilities get exposed to. But then additionally, the vocal qualities, the musicality. I was just in Lagos, Nigeria and I was just like, "Ah." For me it's an extension of language too. I love languages, but languages are all vocal play. The accents of the Nigerian people felt like home [laughs] uh, which is so interesting, 'cause it's like, I'm from New York, what the hell do I have any... But it just felt like the most beautiful sounds. I- I just, I- I, I felt a warmth, you know? And I feel that way with Senegalese-
LA: Mm-hmm.
LB: ... accents as well, um, which is also like-
LA: Were there any, um, specific sort of moments or places, or experiences when you were in Lagos that you really felt like bathed in that sound?
LB: It- it's a beautiful and vibrant, wonderful town that I will go back to many times in my life. I made great friends there. There was this one moment where... I love music as well, 'cause I think that I'm a big dancer and I like to go somewhere and dance. We went to a Nigerian nightclub. And the Nigerian accent, the warmth and kind of kinetic, rhythmic beauty of the language and also the dialect was really sort of rich there. But then additionally, you know, I was doing panels. I was there for an artist symposium called Africa Creative Market and with women and film. I'm on the board. You know, we had women from Greece, from Brazil all in Africa and it was like having a kind of this incredible tapestry of sounds that all got to connect over a like-minded love of film.
LA: When you described riding the bus in New York growing up and that you would collect voices, do you find that you're doing that now when you travel? Is that sort of your way of souvenir shopping?
LB: Well, so then wh, uh, [laughs]... Um, 100%. But also, when I went at drama school I did get myself a Dictaphone and I did start to actually record people's voices and ask them questions, interview them-
Speaker 4: It looks like it's very overcast outside by now. Um, looks like it might rain later on.
LB: ... so that I could later on study and enjoy the- the vowels and how they link words. And different words sound differently in different context and things like that, so you have to really interview someone extensively in order to get them naturally to not feel like, "Oh, I'm being recorded right now and-"
LA: [laughs]
LB: "... now I will speak completely different than I normally do." Some of the greatest source material too can be like, people getting interviewed in the news and things like that. And deep regional, you know, it's like a deep, deep rural Welshman being interviewed about the rain. That's gonna be great, that's a great source for regional Welsh accents, you know, 'cause they're not thinking about their accent as they are speaking.
I absolutely [laughs] collect accents when I am, as an adult, traveling and I am proud of it. And I always ask, "Where are you from? Ooh."
LA: One of my favorite things about making this podcast is engaging with our community of listeners and hearing your thoughts about the show. One of the best ways you can share your thoughts is through the reviews on Apple Podcasts. I was really delighted by a recent one from a user named, Kevin, that reads, "This podcast is like the Moth Radio Hour meets Bourdain. Really compelling interviews and anecdotes that bring you to new places and make you feel like one of the locals. And the host is fantastic." Well, thank you so much, Kevin. So if you're loving Women Who Travel as much as Kevin, please go ahead and rate us, and leave us a review, and let us know what you've responded to in our recent episodes. Who knows, maybe you'll hear your review read on a future show.
Coming up after the break, more from Lake Bell on how if we listen carefully as we travel, we can intuit more about the people we meet from their voices. And I ask, "Does vocal fright actually exist?"
LB: What's your favorite accent and dialect?
LA: Oh, great, great question. I feel like on this podcast I profess my love of New York endlessly and I think what you were describing-
LB: [laughs]
LA: ... is it, 'cause it's just so much of why I'm obsessed with it. And whether it is just hearing a Puerto Rican accent... or a Italian American accent, or you know, just the whole kind of patchwork-
LB: Yeah.
LA: ... I'm obsessed with. As I was telling you earlier, my dad's Turkish, so I also just have a deep fondness for a Turkish accent and-
LB: Yes. Could you give me a- a taste of-
LA: So the, the only taste that I think I can give of a Turkish accent, because to my shame, I can not speak a lick of Turkish, I can not do an accent for it. But the Gs are silent, so the end of my last name, I always say oglu, but it should be like olu. And so-
LB: Okay.
LA: ... it's the silent G I think is a lot of what always catches my ear. You have an, uh, relationship to a language from growing up or, you know, from family members or f- friends or something that you get like a Spidey-sense when you hear it. And if I'm walking-
Lake Bell: Yes.
LA: ... down the street, uh, my ears will always pick up the Turkish people-
LB: Yeah [laughs].
LA: ... and I won't notice anyone else.
LB: Yeah, so you're laser focused. Yeah.
LA: Yeah.
LB I think that's really interesting. I think the- the Gs, that's... Okay. Yeah, there- there are things like, you know, my stepmother, she hailed from Philadelphia, so her whole family had those Philadelphia, um, like they say wooder instead of water, so wooder. And that oo, that little sound for me, I'm like, I can spot that, you know, I could be like reading, texting, listening to music and I can hear it, [laughs] you know?
LA: Yeah.
LB: And I'm like, "Oh, you Philly?" You know, like immediately.
LA: [laughs]
LB: Uh, "What part of Philly you from," you know? So then, you know, uh, same with, you know, sometimes when people are trying to kind of hide their sound. Like especially in- in the UK when they're like, their feigning a little bit more southern and posh or whatever, but then you hear certain vowels expose themselves. Or, you know, instead of T-H, a little F, you know? Those kind of things.
LA: It's actually funny you mention that and it's funny you mentioned a Welsh accent, because my mother is Welsh and grew up in Wales-
LB: Hmm.
LA: ... but sounds exactly like me because my grandmother, who was Welsh, forced all her children to speak in a English accent. I think because she thought it would give them some sort of greater start in the world if they had the Queen's English rather than a Welsh accent, which is a beautiful accent. Welsh is beautiful.
LB: Th- this is the core of what I find so curious in the caste system and the kind of hierarchical system that we're still adhering to even in our modern days. We have our version of generalized American news broadcast accent.
Speaker 5: That's the view of the president, that's the view of the secretary of defense and there's no reason anyone should think otherwise.
LB: This is what authority sounds like. This is what power and strength, and wealth, in a way, sounds like, right? That I have a bone to pick with, because I think that, me too, I grew up in New York and my mom, you know, it was just a different time. She grew up in Long Island, but she sounds like a news media broadcast, okay. And she, when I would come home and I'd be like, "Ay, that guy's kinda stupid," you know or whatever, or like, "What that," you know, like, "I don't wanna talk, you know, I don't wanna talk to that guy," you know. She'd be like, "Um, no." [laughs]
The female voice is under great inspection and criticism throughout history, and continues to be, uh, you know, under the microscope. And it particularly is highlighted in politics, right? So politics is just a great, it's a great case study for why everyone's got a bone to pick with the female voice. What female sound is electable, you know? How can we get a [laughs] female president of the United States? You know, even women of power, you know, in general. We have historically we can look to, okay, Margaret Thatcher.
Margaret Thatcher: But that all attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail.
LB: She went to vocal elocution and actual vocal coaching to lower her voice. And, you know, in the book, uh, we kind of look at that and say, okay, so... I think it was Amanda Montell who said, "Oh, you know," and- and the public kind of thought she was bonkers. And I was like, "Well not that bonkers, 'cause she was elected twice." [laughs]
MT: It was an attempt not only to disrupt and terminate our conference, it was an attempt to cripple Her Majesty's democratically elected government.
LB: I think that I am guilty of that, I lower my register when I want to be taken seriously. And that leads me to a very complex discussion about very feminine, female sounding voices that go all beyond the spectrum to even sexy baby, which we talk about in the book. And that for me is conflicting, because I want women to sound however the fuck they wanna sound. Like I don't like feeling conflicted about it, but the truth is and what I've- I've really, really put a lot of [laughs] thought into this is, and Malcolm Gladwell actually interviews me in the book about this conflict because I wrestle with it daily. I want to say, it doesn't bother me that a woman would speak like a sexy little baby, okay. But it does and I am conflicted about that, because I want women to sound like women. And when you grow up, your voice does become rounder and hormonally change. You know, it changes from being a little girl. And so, if you are going to sexualize a child's sound, that bumps me. That said, if you naturally have a high pitched n- sound, if it's authentic to you, then I'm like, "Let's go. Let's go with God." Like, you know, I have dear friends who just have a higher pitch sound.
I did a- a live show with my friend, Kate Micucci, last night and, you know, I brought her on stage because I, she has a very naturally, off the truck, okay, high pitched sound. And she's a grown woman with... And she's a mother. And I've just always known her to have that sound. And so, you can tell in her performances that she is speaking from a very authentic sound, she just has a high pitch and that's it. Now what I have trouble with is when it is put on, so that-
LA: Mm-hmm.
LB: ... when it's put on as like something to be alluring and more accepted as a sexual object or something like that. I am not saying I'm correct [laughs], I'm saying I'm a human being who's- who's still in process on it.
Vocal authenticity is so important to me, it's level 10. So when I speak to my children, I understand there are different voices that they get to commune with, because sometimes it's, you know, "I'm gonna tell you a story before bed, okay? So I want you to get really snuggly and feel good, okay, 'cause you're a beautiful sweet girl and," you know, there's that. And that's lighter and softer, and more sort of higher in pitch, you know? And then there's, "There's no biting in this house. I will not say it again," [laughs] you know? And so they, you know, there's really, there's a multitude, there's a real spectrum of what is authentic and I mean both of them, okay?
Our voice wields all kinds of powers, whether they're, you know, softness and... Uh, that's what I mean by applyability. It's like there's movement and great dexterity, and like athleticism in the vocal tools. And you know, I've been seeing these articles, people giving great criticism to women who podcast, right, because people are, they feel very comfortable to criticize, because they can't see you, right, so they can't criticize your hair and your l, you know, whatever you're wearing and blah, blah, so they're forced to look for something [laughs] to criticize, as they always do, and it's frustrating.
LA: I think one thing that has come up, and when I speak to other women I know who have podcasts or their voices are somewhat in a public sphere-
LB Mm-hmm.
LA: ... vocal fry is something that comes up a lot.
LB: Yes.
LA: Do you think we even know what vocal fry is anymore? Has it, has the term become so watered down into an insult that's cast against a way of women talking or do you think vocal fry still is something very specific, and can you define it?
LB: Yes. So vocal fry is not exclusive to women, okay. It is a quality of sound that is kind of like a rev, again, I'm not a doctor, okay. It is a sound that has a croak, right, and when that croak is applied over and over again, it can get longer or be just like little abbreviations of croak. But it ostensibly is like a trend, it's like a vocal trend. So it's like vocal skinny jeans.
My mom called me recently and she said, "You know, oh my gosh, this woman was in customer service and I felt like her fry was getting in the way of me trying to understand if she was actually trying to help me or if she was just being passive-aggressive and trying to just placate me." "Yeah, I hear you ah." You know, it's like thank you.
I think of the voice having a multitude of tools that it can use. I do think, especially like, for instance my mother is not a performer, but when she gets on the phone with her friends from England, she does start to fall into this like Mid-Atlantic, uh, just even with the vowels. I'm just noticing it with the vowel. But she does it a little bit. I don't think my mom is wildly inauthentic, but I think that her voice is bending a bit, it's just bending a little bit in order to shape into something that helps her communicate with the, with that person. I walk into a bodega in New York City and as opposed to me in my BBC voice ordering a bagel that's lightly toasted and some smear [laughs], I'm gonna go in and be like, "Yeah, can I get a... Yeah, can I get an everything? Can I get everything, but easy on the, easy on the toast. You know, can you just, just two. Yeah. You know what I mean?" Like, and then it's gonna be like, "Lox and smear, lox and smear," you know. That's gonna go over better just 'cause it's gonna just immediately make things [laughs] move quicker. And mind you, I am someone who's more aware of it, but I can do it with great ease. My mom is not aware of it and she's just allowing herself access to her toolbox without her even knowing it.
LA: When you were talking about going into bodega and ordering a bagel, I-
LB: Uh-huh.
LA: So I ended up marrying an American and he's from rural Pennsylvania, very different from London. I was like in a, just a random restaurant with his family and tried to order a glass of water-
LB: [laughs]
LA: ... five times-
LB: [laughs]
LA: ... until I finally had to acquiesce and go, "Can I get a water?" And then-
LB: Yes, you did.
LA: ... got it right away. [laughs]
LB: See, perfect example, because now someone in rural Pennsylvania just hasn't heard your sound before, so they don't... so that's just exposure, right? So their ear is malfunctioning, they can't understand what you're saying. And you're like, "Well I'm saying it so clearly," [laughs] you know.
LA: C- can't say it any other way. [laughs]
LB: I know. And then you just thought... Uh, this is the perfect example. So maybe you will feel comfortable and you'll still be authentic to Lale, that you had this moment where occasionally, yeah, with your in-laws or sometimes when you're traveling, just to make things easier to get the ticket 'cause you need that train ticket, you don't want that to screw up, you- you'll just say it in an American accent. Not because you're inauthentic, just because you're using your tools.
LA: He was deeply disturbed by the voice-
LB: [laughs]
LA: ... that came out of my mouth though. [laughs]
LB: But you got that water. You can't be dehydrated. [laughs]
LA: I did. I was very thirsty.
LB: Let's get a drink. Let's see.
LA: Oh my God, I'd love to.
Listening to voices on a journey, whether it be in town squares or cafes, or markets is one of the great highlights of travel. There's often a musical burst of sound that's so energizing. But next week I'm chatting to an athlete who prefers to experience the world in the silence of pristine mountain peaks by competing in ultra running competitions and expeditions.
Speaker 7: Uh, terrible things can happen in the mountains, don't get me wrong. And they could happen to me at any time, but I don't think about them too much and I just deal with what comes along when needed.
LA: I'm Lale Arikoglu, and you can find me as always on Instagram, @lalehannah, and follow along with Women Who Travel on Instagram, @womenwhotravel. You can also join the conversation in our Facebook group. Allison Leyton-Brown is our composer. Jennifer Nulsen is our engineer. Jude Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer.
LB: Let's get a beer. Let's get a beer [laughs].